The IDYFT (not Alcoa) presents you make the call! So, here is the play, now pretend you're a replay official actually looking at this and MAKE THE CALL!
So, what do you think? Now, it's my understanding that if the ball is moving forward before contact, it's a pass. The replay shows clearly that Warner's arm moves forward into Woodley's hand. It's also my understanding that the ball must be knocked out of Warner's hand to be a fumble. It is not. While the pass is ugly, it stays in his hand until he releases it forward.
Well, you know my call - what's yours?
UPDATE:
It appears that VP of officiating for the NFL has stated two things I don't believe for a second.
1. The play was reviewed. That would have to be the fastest review in NFL history.
2. The passer must have total control for the ball to be a pass.
Did you read the rule book? I did.
It says the following, not what was released by the NFL. I guess the NFL learned through the Bush government that you can say anything to the press and they'll buy it because they are too lazy to do any research. Here's the rule, FROM THE RULE BOOK:
(Under Rule 3, Section 21, Article 3)
Note 1: When a Team A player is holding the ball to pass it forward, any intentional movement
forward of his hand starts a forward pass. If a Team B player contacts the passer or
the ball after forward movement begins, and the ball leaves the passer’s hand, a forward
pass is ruled, regardless of where the ball strikes the ground or a player."
The word "control" doesn't even appear in the forward pass section of the rule book.
5 comments:
The consensus among the decidedly non-football minds at my party last night was the same as your call, MuuMuuMan.
Everyone I've talked to thought it was a forward pass, listing the aforementioned reasoning as their basis. How the refs didn't even review this play is beyond me. The officiating was fairly poor all night, however, so it doesn't really surprise me that they played an extremely key role in the end. It was a pathetic way to end such an incredibly exciting game.
They certainly should have reviewed it.
However, the rule clearly states that the QB must have control of the ball while it moves forward in order to be a forward pass.
Warner loses control of the ball while still bringing it back; by the time he begins his throwing motion the ball is halfway out of his hand.
Sorry folks, this looks like a fumble to me. And the NFL.
Good follow-up research, MMMan. But remember: the "control" aspect is a new rule, perhaps a year or two old, put in place as part of the whole tuck rule fiasco.
If you're still up for it, see if that is in another section. I haven't read the rule book or the exact wording on any of these yearly updates, but I've heard announcers talk about having to control the ball all year.
It's easy Mr. D. Advocate. If Woodley hit Warner's arm on the way back and "loosened" the ball - fumble - even if the ball is somehow knocked forward. However,Warner had control of the ball and was moving forward before contact - that's a forward pass. Just like the overturned call earlier in the game.
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